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King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
44
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Posted - 2014.07.04 13:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:Hi,
I and some mates are planning to sometimes go in an unfarmed C4 hole to print some money. However I have no idea of which fleet we could use. We already used an Attack BC + logis combination that worked in C3, but I doubt that it could have a sufficient tank for C4 anoms. Of course a Domi RR (shield or armor) fleet would work but the wormhole wouldn't survive for a long time.
So any idea welcome :)
Wrong forum? I don't know.
Anyways a single BS or Tengu can do C4's all day every day. No need to split the costs amongst a fleet
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King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
45
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Posted - 2014.07.05 14:30:00 -
[2] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:Thanks for those replies. As I said, I don't want to use battleships since they would wreck the WH we want to use to acces the C4 and go back home. Ishtars may be nice but we don't have enough skilled member to find this as a valid solution. Same for Tengus (and a Tengu cost an arm and half).
I'll try some fit of spider tanked prophecy, thanks for the tip !
If you insist on using BC's then I would Highly, HIGHLY recommend Drakes. C4s do thousands of points of alpha on even a robust resist. I have seen CNR's and Golems lose 1/3 their entire shield in one hit. On top of that you have the neuting at 83km. I would go with a shield buffer tank and have back up ASB just incase something goes wrong. |
King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
46
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Posted - 2014.07.06 01:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Drakes and Prophecies both have hull bonuses of 20% to all resists at BC V. The Drake is to shield and the Prophecy is to armor. So the choice partly revolves around how you intend to tank.
ASB... efficiency of the remote shield booster. Trust me, love the Armor for pewing the pew but shields are 100x better for wormholes unless you want the love of non-ammo lazors. |
King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
46
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Posted - 2014.07.07 11:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Triakis Cadelanne wrote:GordonO wrote:4 x RR tengu's are the est\cheapest They aren't cheap enough for us. Plus we don't have missile skills.
"Cheap" is a relative term when you pull 100mil from a single site and you can run 10-20 sites a night in a couple hours.
You could seriously pay for complete faction fit Tengu fleet for four characters in about 2.5 days at most, use the rest of the month to buy plex with your isk and save for accidents.
Also, heavy missle training is like easy.
You will not find any combination of ships outside of RR Drakes, RR Tengus, Local Rep Tengus or Sleipners that will match the efficiency, survivability or ease of use. Unless you are willing to go to BS size.
If you don't have the skills, don't go to WH space in the first place. Isk is irrelevant. |
King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
46
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Posted - 2014.07.07 21:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
The problem with the Dominix is that you are going to kill your WH if it is a C4-C1 or a C1-K and the range is horrible for what you want to do.
The only drones that can hit at the needed range to survive a C4 Barracks for example is 85km+ and at that range you are using Sentries only. Sentries will get alpha'd by the sleepers. When you run out of drones you will be screwed.
So let us just refresh here. You have skills to fly BS, skills to use T2 SEntries and RR armor skills... also you have scanning skills or a scanning alt. But you have no skills for missiles, T3 or HACs? I mean a shield rokh for range would even be better than a Domi in my opinion. |
King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
46
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Posted - 2014.07.08 12:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
1c3crysta1 wrote:King Aires wrote:The problem with the Dominix is that you are going to kill your WH if it is a C4-C1 or a C1-K and the range is horrible for what you want to do.
The only drones that can hit at the needed range to survive a C4 Barracks for example is 85km+ and at that range you are using Sentries only. Sentries will get alpha'd by the sleepers. When you run out of drones you will be screwed.
So let us just refresh here. You have skills to fly BS, skills to use T2 SEntries and RR armor skills... also you have scanning skills or a scanning alt. But you have no skills for missiles, T3 or HACs? I mean a shield rokh for range would even be better than a Domi in my opinion. Have you tried spider domis, in any situation? Just keep those cap transfers running and drone aggro is a negligible problem. If there's any drones that're safe in case of sleeper aggro, it's the sentries with their big buffers (and close proximity to being scooped). And above that, they're in the lead when it comes to DPS at those ranges (behind cruise missiles, but without the damage delay). Apart from T3s or Marauders, I think that spider domis are as good as it gets with small groups. As for being to big for the hole, 3 domis are enough and getting them back and fourth through a hole isn't enough to pop any hole short from C1s, and who'll really go and farm those?
What low skill noob is going to be able to use T2 Sentries properly, let alone past the 80km mark? Yes I have used spider domi's for pos bashing and stuff like that, but living in a C4 myself I can promise you shields and missiles are the way to go here.
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King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
46
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Posted - 2014.07.08 22:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
1c3crysta1 wrote:King Aires wrote:
What low skill noob is going to be able to use T2 Sentries properly, let alone past the 80km mark? Yes I have used spider domi's for pos bashing and stuff like that, but living in a C4 myself I can promise you shields and missiles are the way to go here.
Hint: Triakis Cadelanne wrote:
Yep we thought about that, but we're gunners / drone buddies. We don't know what those things that peeps call missiles are made for :p
However, maybe the Ferox can do the same job ?
Missiles ain't closer for them than drones are, especially since they don't seem to like them. I won't say that shield is wrong, but armor got its merits with spider domis.
I guess if it is all you got... but 3 Tengus >>> 3 Drakes >>> 1 Golem >>> Mach >>> 1 CNR >>> 2 Sleipners >>> 3 Lokis >>> 3 Domis >>> Anything else
It is just a heck of a lot of mass on the hole, and they had better have a dedicated scanner with salvage equipment and they had better hope they don't get their exit closed. Nothing worse for WH noobs ninja'ing than to be in a C4-C4 and get stuck in an endless chain that eventually goes to NS. |
King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
46
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Posted - 2014.07.09 11:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:two rr domis properly fit is enough to run c4 sites comfortably. more domis make the sites go faster. id say after a rr tengu gang, rr domis is the most efficient risk vs isk setup. ishtars are up there are well.
there are ships that will do it faster but they cost waaaay too much like marauders/pirate bs. prots are ok, lokis are worse (I have a lot of experience with lokis and c3/c4s) and command ships should work pretty decently but training for them takes aaaages. drakes should work but not as good as domis.
c4 holes have either 2bill or 3bill mass depending on where they connect. a domi has just over 100mill mass. I dont think a bs can even fit through a c1 fyi so you will need to look for c2/3/5/6 holes to get to c4s. also have a cloaky scanning alt sitting on the entrance hole and spam dscan like a mofo.
Seriously there is not a single Wormhole to a C4 that is larger than 2bil... all but the wandering ones (which I have yet to come across) and those are 1bil. And pretty much everything else you said goes along with how people were suggesting Ishtars or Drakes in the beginning. But they aren't trained for either.
Also should be mentioned if your scanner/salvager can also be a T3 with gang links, that would help things out a lot.
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King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
46
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Posted - 2014.07.13 11:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Anize Oramara wrote:arent c4s that is connected to c5 and c6 whs 3bill? I just remember that c4s were a special kind of pita when we lived in the c5 as you cant get caps through it.
we used to run them with rr tengus sure but rr domis will work just as well.
No, all C4 holes are 2bil or 1bil... Also there has yet to be reported a Empire to C4 wandering hole with the K162 in the C4... but on paper I guess it is possible. Still from what others have gathered even those would be 1 or 2bil.
Also second the recommendation for a Rattle or Proteus fleet if you have to stay on the dark side of the force. |
King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
46
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Posted - 2014.07.14 11:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
GordonO wrote:as said.. get drakes and do C3's. Make isk and when ready and have isk move up. I know you have no interest in missiles skills.. but for this type of PVE and others.. there is no better option. I have been there, tried the them.. and trust me.. ninjaing wh sites is best done in missile boats, or with good skills ishtars. BS are no good for jumping holes.. yes they work.. but you will at some stage get separated... or get extremely frustrated... Take the time to prep correctly.. its worth it.
Yeah, unless you live in a hole with a static C4 you really aren't going to do day trips into C4's.
My C4 is usually 4 or 5 holes deep ( ) before I see empire space. And some times we get a spider web of holes and we practically have to draw and scan a hand made diagram.
Also most C4 holes are 16 hour 2 bil holes as stated before. I find 24 hour holes easier for a whole corp to ninja through, and because of the nature of C4's it is very hard to find them unoccupied.
Again, there are very few wanderings into a C4. We get about 3 a month and almost always from a C2 or C4. |
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King Aires
Coffee Sipper's Club Biggby Coffee Fan Club
47
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Posted - 2014.07.18 19:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Adriana Nolen wrote:er, C4 to C1-C4 holes are always 2b mass & 16 hrs. C4 to C5-C6 holes are 3b mass. The ones that might differ are wanderings like T405 into C4 space. Never really bothered to check them.
Also, check out the w-space subforum, there's a sticky about what to use to sites. C4 anoms are pretty simple as long as you can tank 1400 dps, 100k ehp, survive nueting, outdps the reps & of course hit 80km ranges consistently.
2 domis & logi are pretty fast considering the total fleet cost.
It isn't about the holes that go FROM a C4, it is about what holes go TO a C4.
There are exits FROM a C4 to higher class holes that are 3bil, but there is no hole TO a C4 that is larger than 2bil 16hours.
You are missing the point is to get into the C4, not how to get back out.
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Wormholes
For reference
Y683 X877 E175 Z457 T405 (very rare)
These are all 2bil holes, the last wanderer is the M609 which is even rarer than the T405 and it is 1bil. |
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